Podcasts

 

154 TruStage Terrance Williams

November 2023

 

By Terrance Williams

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:03

You're listening to the CUES Podcast, episode 154. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:09

Welcome to the CUES Podcast where leaders and experts discuss the top topics in credit unions today. I'm Lisa Hochgraf, senior editor at CUES. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:19

Today's guest, Terrence Williams, talks about his path to being named CEO of TruStage, a CUESolutions provider, why he chose a career in insurance, and how and why he always aims to pay what he considers his good fortune forward. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:35

In this episode of the CUES Podcast, Terrance tells a great story about how his father helped shape him into the servant leader he is today. He tells about how he knows for sure that going into insurance was the right career choice for him. And he describes the job he had along the way that has been the most formative to him as a leader. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:56

In episode 148 of the show, Deedee Myers, CEO of CUESolutions provider DDJ Meyers, said the most important thing that CEOs need to do to design the organization of the future is go on a listening tour. And that's just what Williams is doing in his early days as the CEO of TruStage, traveling a lot between the TruStage headquarters in Madison, Wisconsin, and the offices of client credit unions and industry partners across the country. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:24

In the show, Terrance talks about the opportunities for credit unions he's hearing about while on the road, and also his vision for the TruStage of the future--both what will change and what will not change while he's at the helm. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:38

I think you're going to really enjoy getting to know Terrance. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:41

So let's get started.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:45

Welcome to the show. Terrence. It's wonderful to have you here today. 

 

Terrance Williams  01:48

Thank you so much. I am really excited about being here and really looking forward to the conversation. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:53

Gonna be great to get to know you. Let's start with a really broad question. Would you tell us about your background? And what drives you as a leader? 

 

Terrance Williams  02:02

Wow, that is a broad question and what sounds like a simple question, but to me, it's pretty complex. Because you know, I am a believer in the fact that we are products of our environment, we are products of our experiences, and we're products of the things, the journeys that we've had in life. And for me, much of what I just described has really shaped who I am as a leader. So let me give you some perspective on what that means. 

 

Terrance Williams  02:28

So I am a Southerner by birth. I grew up in a small town outside of Charleston, South Carolina. And I grew up with a mom who was a an educator and a dad who was a construction worker. And they instilled within me, this belief that I can accomplish and do anything with certain preparation, with certain education with a discipline with perseverance, all of these kinds of things. 

 

Terrance Williams  02:53

So I grew up in this household where this is what was poured into me as a kid. And I really think that has shaped who I am now as a man and as a leader. So my background is one that is really centered around, I talk about servant leadership a lot and the importance of that, and I believe that I'm replicating behaviors that I saw from my mom and dad. And even you know, when you're a kid, you really don't realize that you're seeing this. But when you grow into an adult, you recognize that you're seeing things that happen along the way. And my goal now was to really replicate that and to really ensure that I'm doing my part, to make a difference, just as I saw them doing their entire lives. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  03:35

So can you tell us a story about your parents, something they did for you that maybe at the time, you didn't realize was modeling this, but now you're like, Oh, my goodness. 

 

Terrance Williams  03:43

Absolutely. And I've shared this story inside the walls of TruStage. My dad was the elder in the church. And so I grew up going to church every Sunday from like 9 to 2 or 9 to 3. And because of his role in our church, he actually was the one of the individuals, at least, that went to visit someone who wasn't able to get to church because of an ailment or sickness or whatever. So I literally grew up and going to church and then going to visit whoever couldn't make it to church. And my dad was the person who would go there and deliver the communion to them and to ensure that they were okay and to check in on them. 

 

Terrance Williams  04:21

So, again, I saw that as a kid, and I hated it when I was seven. But I recognize that he was such a pillar in the community, even though I didn't know what a pillar in the community meant then, because he was the person that everyone came to, if they needed advice about a wayward child or if they needed help around a marriage or relationship that was struggling, everyone came to Elder Terry, to talk to him to get guidance etc. So, those are the types of stories that I remember that really played this huge role in who I am as a person now. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  04:56

So this these examples that your father, Elder Terry, and your mom, whose name I don't know yet, but I'd love to learn.

 

Terrance Williams  05:03

 Vera. V e r a.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  05:05

Vera. Oh, yes, and taught you. So they would you say that drives you as a servant leader now and what has that looked like during your career? 

 

Terrance Williams  05:14

A few things. It's really led me down this path of understanding what leadership means. I think that too often, leaders make a few mistakes that I've always tried to avoid in my career. And No. 1, you know, my dad was this leader in the community, but he never took himself too seriously. So as a leader, I try not to take myself too seriously. Or I try not to put myself in a position where others are uncomfortable approaching me or coming to me with feedback or with a perspective or with dialogue. Because I want to make sure that everyone's comfortable engaging with me, when I go get lunch, I talk to everyone in the cafeteria, regardless of their role, and regardless of what they do, and I want them to view and see me as someone that's approachable, as someone that they can talk to and engage with. And give me feedback, give me a suggestion, give me a thought ... doesn't mean we're going to do everything that comes my way. But I always want to maintain that open forum, so that people are comfortable coming to me and approaching me. So those are things that I gained from kind of watching my dad over the years as a kid growing up that I take with me to this day. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  06:23

Those are great connections. Thank you so much. The next thing I would like to talk about is your decision to work in insurance. Now I'm going to show a personal bias here. When people tell me that their children are going to college to be actuaries, I'm like, 'Oh, man, really?" That's a lot of math. I'm a word person, right! Tell us tell us about your journey into this profession. And maybe some of the leadership experiences along the way, it says here you are recognized by Forbes as one of the world's most influential CMOs, but you are not a marketer by trade. 

 

Terrance Williams  06:55

Oh, there's so much in that question. So let me try to start with your initial question. And then we can definitely go deeper on some of the other components there. I'll share a short story on this one to really kind of bring it home and bring it to life. In the last couple of months, I've been out and about meeting tons of people, internally and externally. One of those meetings I had a month or so ago, I met with all of the college interns that are here at TruStage. And so I probably was in a room with about 30-plus people and had another 40 virtually on the line. And I did my introductory kind of remarks about who I am, where I'm from, etc. And then I opened it up to questions from them. And one of the first questions I actually got was, "Hey, it's really unique that you chose to pursue a career in the insurance industry. As you look back on your decision from when you were 17 or 18 years old, do you still feel comfortable that you made the right choice?" And I've never gotten that question, it's pretty unique question, did I make the right choice? And I laughed, and then really tried to explain to the group, the short answer is absolutely with an exclamation point, "I made the right choice"! 

 

Terrance Williams  08:05

But I made the right choice not for what many would be led to believe many would think that I made the right choice because of my role, or because of what I do for a living, I actually made the right choice because I believe in our industry, I believe what we do genuinely matters. When you think about the ability to transfer risk, the ability for me to live my life without the worry of being able to take care of the unexpected, without having to worry about what might happen with the loss of a loved one from a financial standpoint. 

 

Terrance Williams  08:41

And I often say that, you know, our role when you boil it all down, because we deal in a lot of contracts and languages and a lot of legalese, but when you boil it down, our role is really to ensure that we can help rebuild lives to the degree money and caring can. That's what we do. And I would like us to talk about that more as an industry. 

 

Terrance Williams  09:03

And one of my goals actually is to use my platform to ensure that people understand our industry a bit more around what we do and how it matters. And I believe we make a societal difference the industry as a whole. So that's why I'm pretty comfortable. I made the right decision all those years ago about pursuing a career in the insurance industry. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  09:24

I liked that a lot, Terrance, and I think that credit unions and a lot of insurance companies, including TruStage come from mutual routes, right? The ownership of by many. So it's not only that you're pooling, have the insurance spread the risk, but you've also joined together to make the entity in the first place. 

 

Terrance Williams  09:40

Well said, yes. In fact, I believe one of our strengths. One of our strengths as an organization is our mutual structure. And this belief in this notion of people helping people, the ability for us to make long-term decisions that really are centered around the member, the ability to ensure that we can invest today with the recognition that we will benefit someone tomorrow. And we will see a return, you know, the next week. Now, obviously throwing up those numbers in those timelines are illustrative. But this whole theory of investing now for the long term, but adding value for the members, there's a huge advantage in my view that we have as a mutual organization with the ability to do that. So yes, completely agree with you.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  10:28

Yeah. We talked about your early interest. Do you want to talk a little bit about varied leadership experiences, and how you got the marketing award without really being a marketer?

 

Terrance Williams  10:39

So this is an interesting story. I grew up at Nationwide Insurance. I grew up corporately, at Nationwide. So I'd been there 20 years, 20-plus years. And in most of the roles I've operated in in that company, I was what some would call an operator. So I had P&L responsibilities for a geography or for a company, and was really centered almost all of my career around leading businesses. And I was called into my boss, the CEO's office one day, for a discussion. I didn't know what it was about. And he sat me down in his office and said, "Hey, we want you to come back to Columbus." I wasn't living there at the time. "We want you to come back to Columbus, Ohio. And I want you to become the CMO of the company." And you can see the surprised look on my face, which is not the norm for me. And he said, "A little surprised by that one, huh?" And I said, "Yes, I am." 

 

Terrance Williams  11:37

And he wanted me to come back to lead the marketing organization because he wanted someone in that role who had practical operational business experience. He wanted someone who understood a P&L, he wanted someone who knew what it means to run a business and to make investments centered around profits and losses and member satisfaction. And I had done all those things my entire career, even though I was not a classically trained marketer. So yes, stepped into that role, and had an absolute blast, pushed out some campaigns that are still underway today. And within that organization, did a lot of work with with some of the spokespersons that were at Nationwide at the time, and really enjoyed that role immensely.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  12:21

That's really cool, sort of the skills transferability is something we talk a lot about at CUES because of our talent development focus. Sometimes we invite people into our team meetings that wouldn't necessarily be the first people you think of, but we know, for example, we need a process person in this group. Let's invite ... Susan. And then that adds, right. And so I think that sounds like nationwide did a nice job of saying, Terrence has the skills we can surprise him, but he's gonna be able to do this.

 

Terrance Williams  12:50

Right. It really does come down to what you just said about ensuring that you think about inclusiveness and backgrounds and perspectives and experiences. And all of those things play a role in success. I often make the comment that the people around the leadership table, the people that I have the privilege of leading, my direct reports, I want people who have different backgrounds and perspectives and experiences because I want to hear all of the various options as we're having a dialogue around a plan or around something that we're contemplating. I want to hear from everyone around the table. And as I started this discussion with you, our backgrounds and our journeys, and our experiences often shaped who we are. And I want to hear all of that from the various people around the table because to me, that's how you get to the best solution, by hearing those varied perspectives, and weighing all of these options to ensure that you're really meeting the customer where they are.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  13:47

Now I'm starting to get a feel for what you stand for. But here's a question for you. What is your personal mantra, Terrance?

 

Terrance Williams  13:54

Oh, goodness, my personal mantra, there are a couple of things that I live by. One of them, I've already alluded to a little, but I'll go deeper on it. And it's watching my parents and them giving back and making a difference. And even when I was too young to realize the significance of what they were doing. And you know, as I grew into an adult to recognize and see that. So watching that, it was literally just instilled within me that one should always ensure that you're making a difference, that you're paying it forward. So that's something that is really important to me. So the short answer to your question of one of my beliefs is pay it forward. 

 

Terrance Williams  14:35

And pay it forward for me means that I should always seek to ensure that I am doing everything I can to make a difference for those around me, those behind me and even those in front of me, that I'm having an impact on them in some form or fashion. And that impact should be about making them better, about giving them some counsel, advice or thoughts that perhaps they wouldn't have gained without. 

 

Terrance Williams  14:58

And I've shared this in inside TruStage. During one, I think it was my first week or my second week that I was sitting on a stage with Bob Trunzo and we did kind of a fireside chat. And I talked about the importance of paying it forward. And why that's so relevant, so significant for me as a person and as a leader. And I shared with them this bracelet that I wear on my arm. And this bracelet literally says pay it forward. And the reason I couldn't even tell you what year I put this on my wrist, but it's been there for many, many, many years, never comes off. And it is my daily reminder to ensure that I'm not just thinking about me. I'm not just thinking about the business and not just thinking about the things that are right in front of me. But I'm thinking about how can I make a difference? How can I pay it forward, based on the platform that I have, based on the blessings that have been bestowed upon me as a person. So pay it forward is one of the things that I talk a lot about, and it's important for me.

 

15:59

Wow, that's really impressive. I like that. Maybe you can share a picture of the bracelet, and we can post it on the page. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  16:08

So you mentioned that you spent 20 years at Nationwide, you feel like you grew up there. How and why did you make the choice to join TruStage?

 

Terrance Williams  16:18

This is an interesting one, because when I started talking to TruStage, it was CUNA Mutual Group back then, I was quite content where I was. I was enjoying myself. I was in a role leading various businesses outside of the property casualty space with Allstate, so I was quite content enjoying myself. 

 

Terrance Williams  16:38

But when I started talking to TruStage, as I started peeling back the onion and learning more about the organization, a few things began to surface for me that really were meaningful and made the difference for me. First, you've heard me reference the importance of communities and giving back and making a difference. And as I started understanding then-CUNA Mutual group, their commitment to the community, what they do not just by way of writing a check, because writing a check is important. But it's also important to ensure that you're supporting groups, with thought leadership, with strategic partnerships, with having boots on the ground of employees to help with nonprofit organizations. And I started learning and hearing all of these things that CUNA Mutual group was doing in the community. So that was a big important matter from a community involvement. 

 

Terrance Williams  17:27

The second one was the commitment to DEI. You know, diversity, equity and inclusion matter to me. And I believe that companies, corporations have a duty or responsibility to ensure that they are living into the space with actions, with prudent actions that really demonstrate their commitment in this space. And I saw that at CUNA Mutual Group, I remember going through one of the first times I went to the CUNA Mutual website, I was amazed by some of the platform positions that were on the website, and about their positioning and beliefs as it relates to DEI. So that was one of the other quick big items for me. 

 

Terrance Williams  18:02

And then the third item that was arguably one of the most important to me was the mission of the company. So I spent my entire career really talking about the importance of financial literacy, the importance of making sure that people are prepared for the unexpected, and they're prepared for the future. So I've spent my entire career talking about those things. And there was simply a level of alignment with CUNA Mutual Group. The beliefs that I had, around the importance of financial well-being and really ensuring that there's access to everyone's everyone has access, all of those things were really embodied in the mission of TruStage. So it literally felt like there was this massive level of alignment with the company and with me personally and professionally. So that really is why I'm here. It's what led me to take the conversation further after that initial phone call quite some time ago.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  19:04

That's really a fantastic foundation, a fantastic place to start from, an alignment of the company mission with who you are and where you want to go. That's a fantastic place to start. So let's talk a little bit about that. We've talked about where you worked before, and what experiences you've had in the past. Right now you're packing your suitcase a lot and going out on a listening tour talking to credit unions, talking to other people in the industry. What are you hearing? What are some big themes out there right now?

 

Terrance Williams  19:32

There are a number of things that I'm hearing and while someone told me this when I first started or maybe right before I started that, you know, every credit union is slightly different, slightly unique. Everyone has a an approach to their market that's distinct and difference in its focus and strategy that may be some level of uniqueness. But there's some clear common threads across all of the credit unions. So what I've been hearing as I've been out and about and engaging is one thing that rises to the surface that you don't see everywhere is how credit unions really live into this cooperative spirit. And let me explain what I mean there. I come from an industry where I didn't sit down with my competitors to talk about, here are the areas that I'm focused on. Here's how I'm tackling this problem. Here's what we're thinking about as it relates to problem XYZ. So I come from an industry where we didn't do that. But yet, I've gone to meetings now where credit union CEOs are sitting right beside each other in a room talking about common issues and how they're solving it. And someone is sharing what, here's what we're doing in this space. And here's what you may wish to consider or try. So this cooperative spirit is something that's unique. 

 

Terrance Williams  20:49

I'm not sure if we recognize how big of a deal that is. Maybe we do. But it's a significant change from what exists in many, many industries, this alignment, this helping each other, people helping people and sitting beside each other, even someone who arguably could be considered a competitor, but sitting alongside someone and helping them to move the meter because you've been there, you've done that. That's a big deal. So that one I've been super impressed with. And I've seen a lot of that. 

 

Terrance Williams  21:19

One of the other things that I've appreciated, and I was told this before I started, you know, sometimes it's always good to validate things that you heard that you think, going into a new role. And what I've really appreciate it in hearing from credit unions is just the what I'll call the credibility that exists within TruStage in the credit union movement. So we are a significant partner, we're a significant driver of really ensuring that we're supporting the credit union movement. And what I've heard from CEOs and others within the credit union space, is that what we do matters, and that we have this responsibility to ensure that we're continuing to support the system in every way that we can to ensure a long-term viable system that really is making a difference in the communities we live in work in. 

 

Terrance Williams  22:10

So this credibility piece is something that has been significant that I've seen across the board. And I also have appreciated. The last piece I guess I would share is just the advocacy or the partnerships. I've appreciated hearing that up front and personal from leaders about how we align our resources, how we do things together. From an advocacy standpoint, whether it be something that's going on at the federal level, or something that's happening in an individual state, how we align our resources, and all advocate for the good of the system as a whole. So all of those have been just a handful of things that I've observed or seen or heard over the last several months, that really has been inspiring to me. And it really aligns with kind of what I what was shared with me before I started in my role.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  22:59

That's really nice when you use the old journalism adage of if your mother so she loves you check it out. So you heard all these things about credit unions, and then you went on your listening tour and you found them to be true. And that they align with you both.

 

Terrance Williams  23:13

 Definitely so, definitely so. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  23:15

Very, very cool. So based on what you've been hearing and learning so far, what opportunities do you see for credit unions?

 

Terrance Williams  23:22

You know, there's like most things in life are always opportunities and things to zero in on. So I'll throw out just a handful of items that are in no particular order, but just random items that I believe are opportunities for the system and things that we can do to help. 

 

Terrance Williams  23:37

The first one is really centered around technology. And the reason why I lean into the technology piece, my belief is that member expectations, how consumers want to engage is changing rapidly. The ability for someone to pick up their phone, which is in essence a computer, to pick up their phone, and to make transactions to move money around to shift things, to buy a CD, to do things that were unheard of 15 years ago but I can do all of these at my fingertips now. So I think an opportunity is for us to continue to lean into the digital journey and ensuring that we're creating an environment that allows the member to engage however they wish to. If they wish to walk into a branch, that ability is there, but if they wish to engage at 9:30 p.m. on their phone, and to handle transactions, that they can do that as well. So technology and digital is something that I think is we'll need to continue to lean into as a system. And I think we play a role there because, you know, I say regularly that you know, we're going to continue to leverage our balance sheet to invest in technology, to invest in digital with the cause, of the goal of benefiting credit unions, of ensuring that we're doing things that will help them from a member experience standpoint. So technology and digital is the first one.

 

Terrance Williams  24:59

The other one that I would mention that I think is an ongoing opportunity is related to DE and I. And I mentioned this earlier that I was so proud of what I've seen from TruStage in this space. But inclusion really, really matters. And inclusion matters on several fronts. It matters based on representation. It matters based on how we're designing solutions and products. It matters based on the specific expectations that a given community may have or how they think about a certain product or solution or interaction. 

 

Terrance Williams  25:32

And you know, I often share this story about my grandmother. When I was a kid growing up in South Carolina, we lived right next door to my grandmother, and she was someone who always believed in preparing for the future. And maybe that's why I'm a planner. And I can remember this life insurance salesperson coming to her house, literally driving over to her house, which was right next door to us. So it was every I don't know if it's every week or every other week, but he was there often, and he was coming in. And he would always collect this small amount of money. You know, I don't remember the amount of money but he would collect $1. And she would sign this form about this life insurance policy that she had in place, and he would collect this money from her. And I share that story, because my grandmother probably paid significant amounts more for the base life policy that she had than what she was paying. So I believe that we have an opportunity as an industry to make sure that we are doing our part to avoid any of the missteps of the past, as it relates to how we think about communities, how we think about various ethnicities, and how we think about our role as an insurer overall.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  26:41

So more alignment.

 

Terrance Williams  26:42

More alignment, for sure, is important there. You know, the other part that I didn't say, when I was talking about the technology piece, is just the importance of collaboration and partnerships. So we believe that investing in technology from a fintech standpoint remains vital to our long-term aspirations as a company and to the importance of helping to bring along and move credit unions through this space. So I, when I talk about us investing in technology and digital or us investing from a fintech standpoint,or from a startup company standpoint, we have the ability at TruStage to really partner with and invest in sort of companies that can likely add value or leverage as a benefit or an asset to a credit union. And I think it's important that we continue to find ways to bring those types of opportunities to the table, allowing credit unions to partner with them. Startup companies can move a lot faster, can do things at a different scale, in a different way that we can or maybe even the way credit unions can. The finding ways to create these entry points from a partnership standpoint really matter. And those are the kinds of things that we're going to continue to lean into. And as I think I mentioned, as I was talking about some of my background, you know, I've had the privilege of leading venture groups at another company. And the venture landscape is super important because it allows you to tap into a group of entities or companies that you likely wouldn't be able to engage with otherwise. So that's a critical part of the partnership piece for us going forward and with credit unions.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  28:22

indeed. So as a longtime industry editor, I've been writing about credit unions for more than 20 years. Now suddenly, there's gray hair up here. I've observed that TruStage has been involved in technology and DEI and fintech. So that's on the radar. That's out there. So what's next? These are all great things. Now you get to build from here, what's TruStage look like in the future as you lead it?

 

Terrance Williams  28:47

Well, it's a good question. And one, as you might imagine, I've been asked once or twice over the past month or two.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  28:53

I can only imagine

 

Terrance Williams  28:56

The way I the way I typically answer that question is I start out by talking about what's not changing. Because, you know, during any leadership transition, there's always a level of anxiety and people are under trying to understand what's going to happen next, etc. And my belief is that let's start with what's not changing. And I've already referenced a number of these throughout this conversation in our commitment to communities is not changing. Our commitment to ensure that we are investing in startups and really leveraging our balance sheet to invest in startups. That's not changing. Our commitment to really focusing in on the venture space and our fintech strategies around how we drive partnerships. None of that's changing. 

 

Terrance Williams  29:36

But arguably, the most important area that's not changing is our commitment to credit unions. I believe strongly in heritage and the importance of it. You know, we were founded as an organization that was meant to cater to and serve credit union members. We will continue to view our credit union partners and customers as a huge, huge part of who we are what we do and we'll always be linked to that heritage. So none of those things are changing, the commitment that we have in those spaces I've referenced now. 

 

Terrance Williams  30:07

But what may change? I am a firm believer in not driving change for change's sake. But change to ensure that we remain relevant, change to ensure that we continue to meet members where they are. I referenced digital earlier and my phone. We have to continue to evolve our market approach, our thinking from a solution standpoint because customer expectations are changing. So the evolution that you will likely see at TruStage in the years ahead will likely be centered around us evolving to continuously ensure that we're meeting the needs of future members and customers, doing things that are super critical to, as some would say, to go where the puck is going, as opposed to where it is. And I'm a huge believer in that from a strategic standpoint. So those are some of the things that you'll likely see and hear from us in the years ahead.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  31:06

Very good. Thank you so much, Terrance. You've been very generous with your time today. Before we close up the show, I'd like to give you an opportunity to tell me what question I should have asked. What is the question that I didn't ask you today that you would like to answer for the listeners?

 

Terrance Williams  31:20

That's a really good question. Um, well, you didn't ask me what role from my past that shaped who I am or influenced my style, you didn't ask that? Would you like to ask me that? 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  31:31

What what role from your past most influenced your style? That's a great question. I'm interested in the answer to this.

 

Terrance Williams  31:41

I often share this example and this story about the importance of leadership. I'm a student of leadership, and I believe strongly in it. And I go back to one of my first roles as a general manager. So I became had responsibility for profit and loss responsibility for a region, and it was actually the New England region with another company. And I had operated in all of these functional areas. I'd lead claims, underwriting, sales, etc. And now all of a sudden, I'm the person in charge. All those areas report to me. 

 

Terrance Williams  32:11

So my first natural instinct was to go to these leaders who led claims, who led underwriting lead sales. And basically, while I didn't use these words, basically what I was saying was, "Just do what I did when I did your job." Even though I use different words, that's really what I was doing, saying. "Claims leader, if you do this, you'll be successful, because that's what I did. So that's what's necessary for you to be successful." And I stubbed my toe, I wasn't able to connect with these leaders the way I really should have in my first general management role. 

 

Terrance Williams  32:43

The lesson that I learned was leadership is not about me telling you how to get from A to B. Leadership is about me crafting a vision that you can believe in, that you can buy into, that you understand your responsibility, and how we're gonna get to B, but I'm not painting the picture. I'm not declaring the pathway. But I'm setting the vision for the organization or for the group, you know. 

 

Terrance Williams  33:10

So it was a rocky experience for me to learn that. But fortunately for me, in assignments, after that, I really learned that it's really about setting the vision. It's really about inspiring the masses and getting everyone to believe and align around what you're trying to accomplish. And creating that North Star, that North Star that allows everyone to see the future ahead. So I often talk about that role in that job as it was one of the experiences that really helped me to kind of see the importance of leadership as a whole

 

Lisa Hochgraf  33:40

Leadership as a vision-setting exercise so the masses get inspired to create their own pathways to get there and maybe even bring some newness and freshness to it as it goes.

 

Terrance Williams  33:50

Exactly, exactly. If I'm driving the the whole scene, then you know, that's not that doesn't work. That doesn't work for you and me to do that as a leader. Because to the point earlier, you want perspectives from around the table.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  34:02

Very inspiring, Terrance. Thank you again for being on the show today.

 

Terrance Williams  34:05

Thank you so much for the opportunity. I've really enjoyed the dialogue and the conversation, and you've made this completely painless, which I sincerely appreciate. So thank you.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  34:15

My pleasure. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  34:17

I would like to thank you, our listeners for taking time out of your busy schedules to listen to today's episode of the CUES Podcast, and many thanks to Terrance for sharing his perspectives on leadership. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  34:29

Learn more about TruStage at trustage.com That's t r u s t a g e.com. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  34:38

Find a transcript of this episode at cumanagement.com/podcast 154. You can also find more great credit union-specific content at CU management.com. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  34:51

Thanks again for listening today. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  34:53

CUES is an international credit union association that champions and delivers effective talent development solutions for executives, staff and boards to drive organizational success.

 

Podcast 153 Win the Financial Game Chris Jones

November 2023

By Chris Jones

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:03

You're listening to the CUES Podcast, episode 153. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:08

Welcome to the CUES Podcast, where leaders and experts discuss the top topics in credit unions today. I'm Lisa Hochgraf, senior editor at CUES. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:18

Today's guest, Chris Jones, talks about how supplemental executive retirement plans can help facilitate a triple win for an executive, their credit union and the credit union's members. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:30

Chris is a senior benefits consultant and partner with PARC Street Partners, a CUES Supplier member and the sponsor of the show. Previously, Chris and his team were affiliated with OM Financial. In the show, he describes the transition to becoming PARC Street Partners, including what is changing and what is not changing because of it. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:51

When Chris and his team said they wanted the show to focus on how executives and credit unions can "win the financial game," I had to ask for more. What financial game? Listen to the show to find out, including why Chris thinks that when executives and credit unions win the financial game members win it too.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:11

Chris also talks about 457(f) and split-dollar retirement plans. And when each could be the right choice for attracting, retaining and rewarding top executive talent. If you're an executive now or aspire to be one, or if you're a board looking to bolster your succession plan, this show is for you. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:30

So let's get started. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:33

Welcome to the show, Chris.

 

Chris Jones  01:35

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, Lisa.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:38

So I'm pretty excited to be reading the news about your team. I'm reading that you were affiliated with OM Financial. And now you'll be known as PARC Street Partners. And that's going to be an independent financial firm. Can you tell us more about that big change and what really will change and what will stay the same going forward?

 

Chris Jones  01:59

I really appreciate you asking the timing is perfect. Our website went live on October 15. And we had our press releases at the very beginning of the month. So this has been all forming as we're speaking basically, PARC Street Partners Park is P-A-R-C. It stands for plan, attract, retain and compensate, which is really what we do.  Straight because we're on a path. You know, we're all moving forward. So we wanted to use that reference. And then partners because that's the way we view our team. We serve all of our clients as a team effort. And so what we tell people is if you talk to whoever you want to talk to, we will help you get to where you want to go. 

 

Chris Jones  02:36

So the name was really we went with the acronym, OM Fnancial Bill O'Connell and Joe Maloof, who were the owners of OM, when we first started. Bruce, my partner, and I first started with OM, that was about 11-12 years ago. They were both the primary, kind of running the firm we learned from them and work with them. Bill subsequently passed away, and Joe is long retired. And we've been, we always have to explain what OM Financial is. And it's funny. Some people will say ohm financial, is it own but no, it's not ohm financial.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  03:06

I'm one of those. I think that sometimes when I see it.

 

Chris Jones  03:09

Right. So when we were going through our restructuring, we also wanted to change the name to something that meant something towards what we did. And so that's the history of the PARC Street Partners. And we're very excited to be moving forward. The question about what really changes, the change is our name and our website. What doesn't change is the fact that for our clients, really nothing changes. You know, it's the same phone number, same address, same service, same everything. And we'll just continue to enhance enhance our ability to serve them in the most effective manner possible. So in one sense, it's changed. But in the other sense, it's really stability.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  03:48

It sounds like you've clarified what the company is, what it stands for, and you're renaming it something that really fits with how you think about it.

 

Chris Jones  03:56

That's what we were shooting for. So thank you.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  03:59

Awesome. Well, that's good news, then, isn't it?

 

Chris Jones  04:01

Good summation. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  04:04

So before the show actually started today, you and I were talking and you told me that every day is a gift. That's why we call it the present. So funny, because my next question is to ask you is if you have a personal or professional mantra that you live by that you could share with our listeners? Is that your mantra? Or is there another one that you would choose?

 

Chris Jones  04:24

If I had to choose a mantra, and when people first see me and probably the people around me have heard me say it 1,000 times, that would probably be the first mantra. It's just my perception of life. And it was something my grandfather, I think I was eight or nine when he really like there was no question I had to know it. It really is it. Listen, we all have challenges, and we don't know the challenges each of us have. We all have struggles. We are but this is a very precious gift and I want to live as intentionally as I can to honor that gift through my whole life. So if I had it Yeah, I think that's fair. That's that would be a mantra that I I would say, kind of a life philosophy.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  05:03

I love it. And I'm very glad to be here in this moment with you recording this show. So thanks again for being here. 

 

Chris Jones  05:09

Thank you. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  05:10

I thought it was really interesting when you said that the team at OM Financial now PARC Street Partners voted to call this show "how execs and orgs can win the financial game together." 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  05:21

First of all, the voting part was interesting. So your team got together and decided together. I love that. But then secondly, when I think of credit unions and their leaders, I don't usually think of a financial game so much. Can you tell me first about the democratic nature of this decision. And then also about the financial game that you find each is playing.

 

Chris Jones  05:42

The whole aspect of why we look at these things together as a team, the five of us we're out there, in the credit union industry, serving the industry, talking to people, there are times where one of us will just be better fit because of personality style or background or just history with the individual. So Bruce and I made a very intentional decision early on to really let the clients decide who they wanted to work with and how they wanted to work with us. So what we tell people is you can call one of us, you can call any one of usm whoever you're most comfortable with, and we'll get whatever needs to get done, done. So as part of that, well, we have to look at each other the same way. And so we rely heavily on each other, we talk to each other regularly doesn't even come close. The best way to describe it, you know, this is what we do. It's not a job necessarily or even a career. It's probably closer to a way of life. You know, I do have clients that become friends over the years and board members that have become friends and like so I know if they call me on a Saturday, I'm picking up because if it's that important to them, it's that important to me. Everybody's got all of our cell phones, and if something's important, call us; we will respond promptly. It's just an obsession we have and that's, it's the way I would want to be treated. So that's the history of the team effort and why we really, we don't tell the client how to work with us. We ask them, How do you want to work with us? And then it's whoever you want to be part of that process. We're in. So.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  07:14

Awesome. I love that. Now, how many of you are on that core team?

 

Chris Jones  07:17

It's myself, Bruce Smith, Tim Strandquist, Timmy O'Hara, and Kirk Kordeleski.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  07:18

Nice, very nice, good group. So returning to the idea of the title of the show, how execs and orgs can win the financial game together, can you tell me about the financial game that you find execs and orgs are playing?

 

Chris Jones  07:38

Yeah, so I'm gonna give you some history on the reference, because I've been in the financial services industry since 1990. So this would be my 34th year. And we always talk to families, about, you know, how do you win the financial game of life? For a number of years, I did a class at my children's parochial high school on just how to win the financial game of life. And that reference of you know, how do you really win and what is winning meaning winning is very simple for an individual, when the money that your money is making is making more money than you need, you want. In other words, work is optional. 

 

Chris Jones  08:11

But for an organization, just winning the financial game is really just about how do you achieve all the goals in a way that actually can be fun and exciting. And, you know, we should enjoy this ride if we can. So that's why the use of the term game comes in, because there's some gamification, some other books that have been out there, you know, over the years, that were kind of an affirmation of this philosophy. 

 

Chris Jones  08:34

But what we do is hard. And what the credit unions do through this current financial situation is hard. I'm not suggesting anything's easy. But in the matter of us working together to achieve it, we can make that fun, or as much fun as we can, you know, as we work through these crisis and challenges. So winning the financial game is really, you know it's a financial game. The credit union deals with finances. And then the game is just that we work together and we end and we feel like we can celebrate winning this thing on a regular basis. So that was really the history of it. And it's just keep the focus in a positive mindset.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  09:11

I love that. It's very positive focus, just like your mantra about thinking of today as the gift. That's really, that's really congruent. So talk to me a little bit, what do you and your team talk with credit union leaders about so that they know they're poised to win their financial game? And I think you told me that you feel that executives that feel like they can win their financial game personally, are more likely to focus on the credit union while they're at work.

 

Chris Jones  09:39

Right. The concept of this winning the financial game or, you know, as we win together, what we do, where we come into a credit union's life is very specific. We boast that we stay in our lane. We work with credit unions around succession planning. And the philosophy there is we liken it to a relay race. So when you're running a relay race, how do you win? Well rule number one is don't drop the baton. Now, it's great if you have four fast runners, but if you drop the baton once, you're not going to win. 

 

Chris Jones  10:08

And so succession planning is really about effectively passing the baton from one successful leader to the next. There are lots of consultants in the industry that do executive coaching and assist the boards with effective board management, and we work with all of those. But where we come in is how do you effectively retain the rockstars that are key to your success or kind of anticipate transition to smoothly transition from one executive to the next executive, we come in right at that point. 

 

Chris Jones  10:39

And the thinking here is, if I can ensure that I know what people's plans are, and when they're going to leave, and we have, you know, obviously we have backup plans in case things don't go according to schedule, in essence, but the longer I can keep the right people, the more successful the organization's going to be. 

 

Chris Jones  10:57

And so if I can keep them for their career, that's fantastic. But sometimes I don't have the position for their career. Somebody wants to be a CEO, and my CEO is young, I can keep them an extra three to five years. We still win. And so that's where we come into their life. And where we're an expert in is the tools that really are implemented to support that intentional succession planning. 

 

Chris Jones  11:19

When we're talking to a CEO and a board about implementing a supplemental executive retirement plan, whether it's a 457(f) or a split dollar, the two kind of primary directions you can go, we call it it's kind of like Wonder Woman's lasso of truth. When you're talking about money and specific timeframes and vesting schedules, there's no hiding. You really do know you say, Listen, we've had this happen where we said, Okay, we're going to put in a plan and the vesting is going to be fully vested at 65. And the CEO raises their hand and says, I'm retiring at 62. And the board goes, well, we didn't know that. Well, it's really good. We had this conversation. But the reason we had the conversation was because we were talking about something real, the SERP and we were talking about real money, a real benefit and a real vesting schedule to achieve it. And so it just aligns everybody into the same outcome and reveals things that weren't really being discussed before. So it's really valuable. 

 

Chris Jones  12:18

Sometimes there are surprises, it says, okay, you know, there's no reason to put in a SERP at this point. And that's okay, it accomplished its goal. But if we can do our job right and help with intentional succession planning, the boards can plan better in the long run. 

 

Chris Jones  12:33

And then just one final thought I asked the question of boards when I do board chair presentations, which I've done frequently, I start off with a question that says how many board chairs in the room it said, keep your hands down, you don't have to reveal this, but how many board chairs in the room have gotten this phone call? Listen, I've been torturing myself all weekend. But I've got an offer I can't refuse. So I've got to let you know that I'm going to be taking a new position. And that was your CEO calling. 

 

Chris Jones  12:58

And inevitably, somebody will, somebody will shout out, Yeah, I've gotten that phone call. Listen, if we can help avoid that phone call, that's worth its weight in gold. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  13:09

Indeed.

 

Chris Jones  13:10

It's the surprises kill you. It's the surprises that really hurt. Especially when people are leaving if you know health and other things you can't predict. But if we can create as much intention around the succession planning and is eliminate the surprises, everybody wins. And as we say, you know, the credit union is going back to the game question. If the credit union is winning the financial game, the executive should win the financial game. And as the result of those two, ultimately, keeping the member in the center is the member is winning the financial game. When the organization is healthy and moving forward, the member is winning.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  13:46

That's a triple win. It's not just a double win, but a triple win. I love that. So I imagine that a lot of the listeners are either CEOs or executives. However, there might be some folks out there that are a little less familiar with the two types of plans you mentioned as the main supplemental executive retirement plans. Can you talk a little bit about each just kind of say what they are and in what circumstance you might recommend them?

 

Chris Jones  14:10

Sure, these are high-level and then as you dig down, you can get more granular and take different paths. But the two primary are 457(f) or split dollar. Credit unions are nonprofit for pension purposes and for all purposes, but nonprofits versus for-profits have very different nonqualified deferred compensation rules. In the for-profit world, like a stock company, the way they would retain and reward a key executive. They would grant stock options and those stock options would have a vesting schedule and you know, after the vesting's done, you get this springing wealth that enters your life. 

 

Chris Jones  14:45

Well, nonprofits can't do that. The 457(f) is a very simply put, it's a time based bonus. So you have a timeframe, let's say 10 years and the executive is going to get a million dollars in 10 year. If they leave in nine years 360 days, they get nothing. If they're on the 10th year, all they have to do is be there, then they'll get that million dollars. 

 

Chris Jones  15:06

So, I mean, as that approaches, it becomes more and more significant. In the first year, it probably doesn't seem that real, but in the ninth year, they're not going anywhere. So it does have the effect.'

 

Chris Jones  15:17

There are some tax ramifications with a 457(f), that are just less it's all taxed typically as a lump sum. And so you're always paying the top tax bracket. So in a worst case, like California, you could get 47 cents on the dollar after the payout. And then for state credit unions for any payout that exceeds a total income for the executive of a million dollars in that given year, the credit union pays an excise tax of 21% on the payout of a million dollars too. 

 

Chris Jones  15:46

So those two, the tax, the excise tax came in starting in 2018. And so they're great plans to buy a segment of time. And that's what we say about the 457(f). The split dollar, and there are multiple designs, we're actually just going through a design change or just went through a design change because of the dramatic change in interest rates, which frankly, were the greatest increase percentage-wise in interest rates in my lifetime, you know, over 500% increase in what under a two year period of time. So very dramatic has certainly has had significant effects on the credit unions. 

 

Chris Jones  16:23

So as a result, we've done some design change. But in effect, what a split-dollar plan is, is you're splitting the interest of a life insurance policy between a death benefit and cash value between an executive and the credit union. And as a result, you can split that interest in different ways. In most of our designs or actually all of our designs, when we're using a true split dollar, the credit union gets paid back principal and interest on the loan and the executive's family gets the remainder. So the executive's getting a nontaxable benefit in retirement, getting a tax debt or a death benefit tax-free for their entire lifetime. And the credit union's basically all they're doing is making a loan and getting paid back on that loan. And so it's a much more tax-efficient way to solve the same problem, which is to create a financial incentive for everybody to align their interests to the same outcome and really, at the executive level.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  17:20

Can you say those are super interesting, and it's really clear that you understand them really, really well, including the tax implications and the rules associated with them, which I'm sure are massive. But talk to me a little bit about a case when you would recommend the 457(f) versus a split dollar, when would you choose them?

 

Chris Jones  17:38

First we implement both frequently. We would use typically the 457(f) in a I'll give you a couple of examples. One is we have a merger or had a merger go on where the CEO said I need these people to be here through the merger. And so we put in a 457(f) with a three year timeframe. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  17:55

Okay

 

Chris Jones  17:56

Another one was a five year timeframe with the merger. And so all we were doing was buying a segment of time from that executive saying, listen, at the end of five years, you're gonna get one time your annual salary and a bonus. There, if they make it four years, they're not leaving the fifth year because they're getting double their comp in that year. That's not always that number, maybe 50%, or whatever it is, it's enough to accomplish the goal. So the 457(f) is when you're trying to buy a segment of time, or you have an executive that's really too young for them to even say, I want to be here for the rest of my career, the 457(f) can be much more efficient. 

 

Chris Jones  18:32

We also have a few states where the 457(f) is the only option for the state credit unions. So we wind up using it fairly frequently. And then sometimes it's a standalone, sometimes it's a lead into a split dollar in the future. 

 

Chris Jones  18:48

The split dollar, it's really simple. When an executive or the board is saying what do we need to do to make sure our credit union is this executive's career. In other words, we want this person for the rest of their career, then the split dollar is really much better solution. Because the way it works is the plan is on the books, typically for the rest of the executive's life. 

 

Chris Jones  19:10

So you you want to do this for those people that are great in their career with you. And as a result, you know, it's very tax-efficient, but it stays on the books of the credit union as a loan or performing loan on the books of the credit union for the rest of that executive's life. So it's really if we're asking that question, what do we need to do to make sure our credit union is your career? Then we'll talk about the split-dollar plan. If we're not looking at that timeframe, then we're talking about the 457(f). And then sometimes when somebody is uninsurable, their spouse is uninsurable, the 457(f) is also the only option. So

 

Lisa Hochgraf  19:43

That's great. That added a lot of clarity to when an organization and an executive might be looking at one versus the other. Thank you. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  19:50

So far, we've been talking about using these SERPs for retention. But it would seem to me looking at this from the outside, that it could also be really appealing for an executive being hired in from the outside to say, Oh, this group has already worked with a SERP or they're already talking to me about a SERP as they're interviewing me. Does it also work well as an a talent acquisition tool?

 

Chris Jones  20:15

It's actually becoming more normal in the recruiting process. So what's happening now and the recruiters are doing this as part of that hiring contract, is we'll see that a SERP typically doesn't have a ton of detail. We encourage that it does. But a SERP will be required to be in place within 12 to 18 months of the person's hiring. Sometimes that'll go as long as 24 months. And so you wait 12 months, because you should date first, you should make sure okay, I want this person for the rest of their career, even though when they're coming from the outside, you might know them, but you might not have seen them in action in your organization. And so we'll typically wait 12 months, and then it'll stretch anywhere between 12 to 24. 

 

Chris Jones  21:00

For the implementation of the plan, though, yes, it's part of the recruiting process. Now it's part of the discussion. And then the other side is also the reward. So it's great for retaining, but we've had situations where Listen, the executive was already 62, they wanted to do something more to say you've made an unbelievable difference for our credit union. And they just hadn't had a way to do that in the past. So we've implemented plans for somebody who was older to create a benefit that they should have been able to build through their career. So they were there 20 years, they saved the credit union, they've accomplished growth, everything else. And so we've implemented many plans that were reward-based. It's not necessarily binary either. It can be reward and retention; you can merge some of these together as well.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  21:44

So that's good information. Thank you so much. I want to ask you, before we leave, is there a question that I haven't asked that you would like to answer for our listeners?

 

Chris Jones  21:54

So I always like to segregate those two, because people get them confused. Sometimes, you need to have the plan. And then the question is, do we need a SERP to support that? We think often you do, but the plan should stand on its own. So that would be the first aspect. 

 

Chris Jones  21:54

I mean, it's a great question. What we want to stress is succession planning is a process. It's not a SERP. The SERP is a tool that is used to support the process. The succession plan should stand in and of itself, on its own. And then you may need a SERP to then solidify that plan or put some teeth in that plan to say, Okay, now we have the financial benefit that's tied to this plan that we have. 

 

Chris Jones  22:39

The second is, a lot of times we'll come into credit unions and the board dynamic with the CEO, it varies so widely across the country, it's amazing. We would assume that, you know, the board CEO is talking to the board or the board chair at least weekly and there's high communication, that is not always the case. And so there are some times when we have to bridge that. You'll go back and forth. But the best-case scenario is when they're talking regularly, and we're part of that conversation. But if we're needed to bridge that conversation, we can do that, too. 

 

Chris Jones  23:12

So that's a board dynamic that we think we help facilitate as part of the process. And when you look at the background of our team, if we added it up, 100 years of experience in the credit union industry, so that was something like 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  23:24

Just a few years. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  23:25

And my background, I've hired executives for years, I've managed organizations. Bruce's background, CFA, chartered financial analyst worked on Wall Street. Tammy's background, she ran a CUSO. She also worked with CUES. So she, you know, she had background there. Tim was a recruiter for many years. And we always joke about we boast about the fact that we recruited a recruiter. So it's kind of funny because recruiters are our friend. But they're also kind of our enemy in the sense that when we put in a plan to retain somebody, the recruiters can chip away at that plan. And so what we tell people is, if you don't think your executives are getting called, they're getting called. Our goal, our job is to keep that call as short as possible.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  24:09

Tim can help advise you on just how well you can do that job.

 

Chris Jones  24:14

He's been a great partner. And then Kirk joined us about three and a half years ago. He was the CEO of the largest credit union in New York, knows the perspective from a CEO standpoint about not only why this needs to be done, but how it should be done. So the dynamic of how do you work with the board? So we brought the team together because we looked at people's background and experience and how we could ultimately be a partner with our clients to work with them and succession planning into the future. And we think all of those angles really give us a unique, not just perspective but a unique value proposition to the marketplace.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  24:52

Chris, thank you so much for your time today. Thanks for being on the show.

 

Chris Jones  24:56

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  24:59

I would like to thank you our listeners for taking time out of your busy schedules to listen to today's episode of the CUES Podcast. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  25:06

And many thanks to Chris for sharing his deep knowledge of supplemental executive retirement plans. Learn more about PARC Street partners at PARCStreetpartners.com Park is P. A. R. C. Learn about how to become a CUES Supplier remember at cues.org/suppliers.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  25:25

Find a transcript of this episode as CEU management.com/podcast 153. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  25:33

You can also find more great credit union-specific content at CUmanagement.com. Thanks again for listening today. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  25:41

CUES is an international credit union association that champions and delivers effective talent development solutions for executives, staff and boards to drive organizational success.

 

Podcast 152 Deedee Myers Hybrid Work and Careers

October 2023

By Deedee Myers, Ph.D.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:04

You're listening to the CUES Podcast, episode 152. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:09

Welcome to the CUES Podcast, where leaders and experts discuss the top topics in credit unions today. I'm Lisa Hochgraf, senior editor at CUES. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:18

Today's guest, Deedee Myers, talks about the impacts of remote and hybrid work on people and their performance and careers. Deedee, as many of you know, brings a lot of knowledge about the people side of credit unions, whether that's applied to governance, executive recruiting, talent development or succession planning. She's CEO of DDJ Myers, an ALM first Company, our CUESolutions provider for succession planning and board development, plus the sponsor of our quarterly Advancing Women publication. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:51

In this episode of the CUES Podcast, Deedee shares what she's been hearing from the credit unions she visits about the current state of remote and hybrid work. In a nutshell, many people are seeing value in being in person again, at least three and up to five days a week. Deedee also shines a light on the impact of hybrid and remote work on performance appraisals, career development and more. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:14

I know you're going to gain a lot of insight from Deedee. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:17

So let's get started. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:21

Welcome to the show, Deedee.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  01:23

Hey, Lisa, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:26

It's always so good to have you here on the CUES Podcast, and today we're going to talk about something that is being talked about a lot. And that is hybrid work. This idea that so many people are now working from home or working from a remote location to the office some or all of the time. What I'm hoping we can do, though, is take this a step further from then just talking about hybrid work and what it is to the implications that it's having on things like growing your career or the networking that you're able to do or some of those people things that don't always come out. How's that sound?

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  02:01

I'm game. Let's go.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  02:03

Let's do it. I know you're a great person to talk about this. And I know you travel a ton and you're with credit union people in the C-suite in the boardroom all the time. So first off, let's tell our listeners, what are you hearing as you talk with the leaders in the credit union industry right now about hybrid work? What are they saying? What's working? What's not working so well?

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  02:23

Yeah, happy to share least I think since the beginning of the year, I've talked to and surveyed and connect with over 2,000 people in credit union. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  02:30

Oh that's a few right?

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  02:32

Yeah just a few, yeah. And so the conversations we're having with the C-suite and the board leaders has definitely changed in the last six to eight months from last year and the year before. There's a noticeable change, Lisa, in the narrative regarding work from home. 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  02:47

Boards are organized now to work more in the boardroom, physically, and they're shifting either to every month in the boardroom or once a quarter in the boardroom in that deeper dive of looking at the strategic plan and initiatives, and then the other two months, maybe just doing a light update. 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  03:06

And then in the office, there's definitely a reported fracture in the culture, regarding coordination, communication, collaboration. It's distinctively easier to collaborate. What we're hearing is when we're back in the office, Lisa, back in the office, not we don't have to be there every day, but we're encouraging a minimum, is what I'm hearing, a minimum of three days a week, which would be two days a week at home, Monday and Friday, where we don't really have to connect. And then three days a week in the office, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, very intentional space and time and effort on conversations that we need to coordinate, collaborate and innovate with others.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  03:47

So that's really interesting and not entirely surprising to me that people find that teamwork and collaboration, maybe has extra synergy when people are in person and that there's value in those days of the week that people are in the office together. I also think that in-person time has a lot to do with sort of the people part of what we do in credit unions, for the staff and for the executives and for the board. So talk to me a little bit about the impact that you're seeing of hybrid situations on executive careers just for starters.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  04:21

Well, first of all executives are exhausted. They're exhausted because they have to lead across multiple channels now, and we're not trained to do that. So we have to figure out how to do that and how it impacts our career. So we're also seeing that we're still in a mid-level crisis, where mid-level managers are still not strong in critical thinking and strategic thinking and being innovative and conceptual. 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  04:47

So what's happening, Lisa, is we have to do our work, our strategic work. And then we also have to reach down and be involved operationally, tactically, at the mid-level range because our mid levels are not ready to do that. So there's a couple things going on here. So they're getting very, very stretched. What that means is they don't have a lot of time to work on self-development. You know, even taking vacations we're seeing as people come back from a vacation and day one, they're stressed again because they don't have the time to take vacations they get so, so worried.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  05:22

That vacation glow doesn't last very long anymore.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  05:25

No. So we're recommending buffer days, a day or two before you go. And we're asking managers to give their people buffer days, and a buffer day, a day or two afterwards. We're just coming in, getting acclimated getting caught up. So it is a conundrum. We've got to figure it out. And I have some ideas, but it's gonna take some courage and commitment for us to slow down and relearn how to we need to be effective leaders. Otherwise, we're going to be in a cluster really badly here soon.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  05:56

Really interesting. So being an executive today has a whole new level because you're managing people that are working in different places frequently. So interesting. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  06:06

So what about the talent development things like performance appraisals, that, you know, long ago, were always done face-to-face in a room. And then for a while, we're all done on Zoom, as weird as that was right during the pandemic. And now they might be both. How does an organization or a leader level the playing field? So if they're evaluating one person over Zoom and another person in the office, how do they balance that out so that it's fair? 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  06:32

Yes, so first, we have to relook at how we're performing or assessing performance of people. Some organizations are not doing them anymore. Some are saying, "It's your responsibility to come to me and do a performance review with me." And then third, we still have the old style where they're done, maybe every quarter, at least once a year.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  06:53

The piece that we're missing quite a bit is roles. Right now, people right now are unclear of what their standards are, what the business model is, what the vision is, their North Star, and they're not sure what they're supposed to be doing and how it's measured. They show up every day, Lisa, and are doing what they think they can do. So translate that to performance review, there's probably some shock factor, right? So if we're not clear on what we need to do, and those directions haven't been given to us, and those standards, it's a challenge. So this is a place where I think we need to slow down, go back and look at what is the position description of the hybrid worker? And what are the standards of success for that, and then give feedback appropriately there and more timely than once a year. And then look at what's different when we're in the office and what are the standards there. So I'm saying we need to go back and relook and restart a lot of things here so we could be together more. I've seen it would take a good year for us to go back and refresh and rewrite a lot of that.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  07:55

That's super interesting. I think I've heard you say slow down twice, once to slow down for your own learning, make sure that you're including that, even as you're having to deliver on managing people in more than one channel, so to speak. And now you're also saying it with regard to performance appraisals. It's time for a second look. It's time to make sure that those position descriptions are written out as you really intend them to be and that the standards are really something that people can look at and understand and perform to.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  08:25

Another piece there too that I'd like to say, Lisa, is the way we looked at HR in the past is not going to work for us in the future. HR typically did the day-to-day operations, payroll insurance, 401(k), right? They counseled people, coached people, helped with recruitment. We need to become more specialized. So what I like to see as the bifurcation of day-to-day HR, HRIS  from what we call T and D, talent and development, right. 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  08:53

And so, also in talent development, I like to see bifurcation there. Training is training on tools and processes. Development is the development of the person, the whole self. All that is needed. We need to be trained, and we need to be developed. So the mistake I think we're making, which is a great place to look at how we want to be in the future in terms of our talent and personal and professional development is what kind of person needs to lead that area? It's definitely not somebody that just got an HR degree, or just got there SHRM. Yes, that's helpful. But what I'm seeing is people who lead those areas either called chief people officer or CHRO or chief development officer, whatever it is, they've had a couple of cycles in life. They know what it's like to be a human, how to empathize and sympathize and coach and mentor people to move towards their own North Star in support of the organization. So I think we have a place to look at how we can in organizations help our newcomers, help our mid-levels and help our maturing leaders.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  09:55

Really great to hit at all levels of the organization with this. So, you've kind of talked about who should be in charge of like the overall people strategy, right? You're saying that might be best if it's someone that's been in this professional world a while and has seen a few things. You don't just know HR legal and HR processes and the information system, right? They have a bigger perspective. What about something more narrow like a career path? Who develops that in credit unions today? What would you recommend? 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  10:25

Oh, I love that question. Well, first of all, it would be a great business standard that everyone has a career path, right? So that would be part of all levels of the organization. It starts at the top. Te CEO needs to practice it, and needs to advocate for it, as well as all the C-suite. And so the C-suite should do it for themselves, and encourage and coach others to do theirs. I think it has to start at the top. And every organization, I know that everyone has a career path, it's so much easier to be nimble and flexible to reach their goals. It does start at the top, and everybody owns their own.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  11:03

And how does this play into succession planning? If we're talking about building bench strength through the organization and then also having the option to hire from outside, how does this career pathing in a hybrid world fit into that picture?

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  11:19

Well, it's interesting because recent research that just came out in September, last week, said that those that work in the office, at least three to five days a week actually get promoted more because they're seen, they're there, they're in the meetings, it's easier to have conversations. So if you are a professional hybrid worker, you need to figure out how to be seen on those two, three days that you're in the office, or how you can keep connecting with others in a meaningful way, and maybe show up to off-work events. So it's more work on your part when you're in a hybrid environment. You've got to find those ways and those channels and opportunities to be seen.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  11:57

Once again, slow down, apply a little strategy. Yeah, I like it. 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  11:58

Yeah, absolutely. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  11:59

So I know you've been reading and speaking a lot on this topic and related ones. Of that research and of the articles you've been reading, was there one salient fact that really stood out that surprised you? Or that made you go, Oh, that's really relevant, or I hadn't thought about it that way before?

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  12:22

Well, first of all, talk about a piece that was validated. You know, when we went into COVID and people said, Yeah, we're doing great. All the people I work with my CEO said, Yeah, we're doing great. We transformed overnight to work from home. And I said, Well, what about culture? And I heard, Our culture is great. I said, Let's talk after we start coming back to work. 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  12:40

So I think there were several blind spots that we're going to be able to maintain our culture through totally remote workspace. The thing about culture is the artifacts. I think we underplay the importance of culture. Like we walk into the office, we get the vibe, the colors, the furniture, the fabrics, the artifacts on the wall, how we do things together, it's all gone. And it's in a box right now on a video, and it's your home office, whatever that looks like. So it was validated. 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  13:09

My concern was, what are we going to do when we come back? And, you know, unfortunately, we're seeing a lot of fractures in the culture and the foundation, and people are starting to look at, okay, where are we now? And where do we need to be in five years? So the piece that I'm really liking and what I'm reading is, let's be strategic. Let's do it right. Let's pace it. Let's ask for a lot of feedback from our early workers, you know, those are coming in early careers, you know, throughout the whole organization. So it was just validating that in the piece for me there, Lisa is, you know, there's a lot of work to be done out there. And I feel like we're in the right place at the right time. It's very exciting work.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  13:48

Indeed. People work is always very interesting and exciting. So what about the youngest members of our workforce? I'm mom to an almost 20-year-old and his last two years of high school were really weird. What about those folks that are just about finishing college or about to finish, you know, have just finished college? And they're entering the workplace? Is there anything we need to think about for them in terms of helping them with hybrid or in-person work so that they too can create a career path for themselves with our credit union?

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  14:18

And the other thing is, they like having a supervisor. They want somebody readily accessible next to them. Not on a video. In our company, the interns come in at least three days a week. And they don't like to be working from home. The other days, when nobody's in the office, sometimes I find them in the office alone, getting things done. But I just think we have some work to do there. And it's very opportunistic.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  14:18

Yeah, I think it's really a good idea if we have someone talk to those people coming out of high school and college and say, talk to us about your study habits. What did you enjoy? How did you study? Did you study alone? Did you study with people? What was your environment? What environment was the most motivating to you? Because then you could listen to say, oh, yeah, I studied with my friends and we were at the library, or studied at a coffee shop and we were at a social table, or we went to a study room, or we go to people's houses that have a big counter and we go there. The theme is they study together. They study together and they challenge each other and and they do work together and they like food. So if you're going to be hiring younger people and some of them, Lisa have such grit and commitment, it's very exciting. And they're brilliant. They're brilliant. Like I'm sure your kids are, and they put them at a social table. Don't stick them in a cubicle. Give them food. Encourage social time. They'll work more than your eight, nine hours a day. They'll find off-hours to work together. I think we need to do some discovery there. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  15:58

I love the idea about listening because I do think that young people often do not feel listened to. And of course, food. There's there's a long -tanding joke, right, that if you want the college students to turn out, you need to provide a pizza, and they will come. It helps a lot.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  16:12

Gluten gluten free one, too. That's what I hear.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  16:15

Oh, there you go, yeah. Maybe even a dairy free. Who knows? What your own work? I imagine that you're very comfortable working in a variety of locations. Are you in the office yourself? Three days a week or?

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  16:28

No. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  16:28

What's your pattern? I mean, you're on the road, right? 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  16:31

Yeah, yeah, it is. It is a challenge. Fortunately, love my work. And I'm in my clients' office. I would say about 70 to 80% of the time somebody is shadowing me, somebody from the office, whether it's an intern, or a mid-level. Somebody's always shadowing me, just to learn. And I remember that's how I learned. I just shadowed, shadowed, shadowed years ago. I had no idea what asset liability meant, what they were talking about. Then one day, it all clicked. And here I am. But I do a lot of shadowing.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  17:02

That's really interesting. And shadowing would be, I mean, I guess you could do that in both both the remote and the in-person environment, right? You probably have right, invite a shadower to come to the Zoom call or invite them to travel with you, either one.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  17:17

They all have access to my calendar, and they're invited to jump in on any call. And my clients know, this is how we roll. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  17:25

That's very interesting.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  17:28

Absolutely. Unless it's a coaching call, then I won't do that.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  17:31

Gotcha. A one-on-one coaching call where you're working with a particular executive makes good sense. 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  17:36

Yep. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  17:37

So Deedee, let's talk for a moment about the specific career path of looking to be a CEO. Are there some special things in this hybrid world that you would recommend for people that aspire to that top seat?

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  17:50

Absolutely. So what we're seeing is that the internal candidates who aspire to be a CEO actually have to take specific actions to do that, rather than just sitting there and waiting to be told they're on the CEO succession plan. So if you are a hybrid worker, let's say three days a week at home or two days a week at home, you still have to figure out a way to be seen by those who make that decision and get your voice in the room, particularly in a strategic capacity. 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  18:19

So you think you're going to be a CEO in five to 10 years, don't wait till the CEO announces they're leaving a year ahead of time. We've got to do that now and be aggressive and be committed, and get a succession plan. Ask your CEO what you need to learn to develop. As much as you can, get a perspective from the board. You say, I want to be on the CEO track, what would the Board want me to do? Talk to other people; get coached. But you have to step out of your comfort zone and get a little courageous and bold in that pathing.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  18:52

So regardless of whether you're working some from outside the office, make sure that you're connecting with people and make sure that you're going after learning opportunities as part of your goal to be CEO.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  19:04

Yes. And one more thing, as I told the conference the other day, update your resume at least once a year, not that you're going to go and go for an interview. But update your resume so you keep track of the accomplishments and achievements, the way you're impacting and influencing the organization. Number two, be clear that your resume is not a regurgitation of your position description. That's very boring and not inspiring. So you want to focus on influence and impact. And number three, don't put pictures on your resume. Use the old school black and white. Don't don't put the pictures on there.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  19:05

Interesting, great resume tips from Deedee. Thank you. As always, you've been very generous with your time and your knowledge. Before we close up the show, what question did I not ask today that might be good to discuss for our listeners.

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  19:56

So the question I would ask is you as a listener, what are you going to do different starting today? How are you going to organize your time and attention on your people? And for five years ago, we recommended that you spend at least 25% of your time connecting with others. Guess what? Now we're recommending 50% sounds like a lot. But if you think about it, 50% of your time not reading emails or reading reports, yet you're sitting with someone, someone shadowing you, you're sitting in meetings, you're doing walkabouts, there are plenty of opportunities for you to be with somebody other than yourself 50% of the time for the sake of the future of the organization, for the membership and for your people. So that's what I'm asking you to do.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  20:45

And that's wonderful. Thank you so much for being on the show again to add. 

 

Deedee Myers, Ph.D.  20:49

Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks a lot, Lisa.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  20:52

I would like to thank you, our listeners for taking time out of your busy schedules to listen to today's episode of the CUES Podcast. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  20:59

And many thanks to Deedee for sharing her deep knowledge. Visit her company's website at ddjmeyers.com. That's DDJm y e r s.com. Find a transcript of this episode at CUmanagement.com/podcast152. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  21:19

You can also find more great credit union-specific content at CUmanagement.com. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  21:25

Thanks again for listening today. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  21:28

CUES is an international credit union association that champions and delivers effective talent development solutions for executives, staff and boards to drive organizational success.

 

151 Scott Hackworth Compensation Survey

October 2023

By Scott Hackworth 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:03

You're listening to the CUES Podcast, episode 151. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:08

Welcome to the CUES Podcast, where leaders and experts discuss the tough topics in credit unions today. I'm Lisa Hochgraf, senior editor at CUES. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:17

Today's guest, Scott Hackworth, talks about the 2023 CUES Executive Compensation Survey and the 2023 CUES Employee Salary Survey. Before I introduce you to today's guest more fully, let's pause for a word from our sponsor. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:36

With increasing regulatory expectations and growing complexities surrounding cybersecurity, it's often difficult for in-house staff to manage audits and exams, implement security controls, and keep up with the latest industry trends. And it's even more challenging for credit unions to attract and retain staff in today's competitive market. That's why CSI delivers a holistic approach to optimizing your credit unions' IT and cybersecurity posture. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:03

With CSI IT governance services, CSI's IT governance experts ensure your credit union's IT and security strategies support your business goals and offer guidance on a variety of topics, including business continuity planning. Our strategic business consultants collaborate with your institution's stakeholders to develop a business continuity plan, also known as BCP, and provide additional departmental disaster recovery planning guidance. Having an up to date BCP helps institutions prepare for unforeseen circumstances while minimizing effects to members. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:41

Since CSI strategic business consultants work with credit unions of all sizes and in different markets, they stay up-to-date with industry trends and regulations, allowing your credit union to benefit from their deep bench of knowledge. Visit www.CSIweb.com to learn more. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  02:04

Our guest today, Scott Hackworth, is a CPA and president of Industry Insights Inc., CUES' partner in its annual compensation surveys. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  02:13

We smiled the last time Scott was on the show and he said his professional mantra was "In God we trust, all others must bring data." In this episode, Scott says the importance of data continues and adds that choosing good tools for analyzing your data is important too. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  02:30

In this show, Scott talks briefly about the package of tools available to credit unions that use the data from the CUES surveys to inform their HR practices and individual professionals who use the data to help them reach the next milestone in their careers. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  02:45

Scott also talks about the overall compensation marketplace and the implications for credit unions doing talent recruitment, hiring, engagement and retention. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  02:54

Overall, the surveys this year find that pay is again up for credit union employees, especially for people in the top positions such as CEO, and interestingly, chief solutions officers. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  03:06

There are a few topics more compelling than your next paycheck. So let's get started. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  03:14

Welcome back to the show, Scott.

 

Scott Hackworth  03:16

It's pleasure to be back with you, Lisa. Happy to be here.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  03:19

Yeah, we've had you here before I remember chuckling about the mantra you said you lived by the last time and that was, "In God we trust, all others should bring data." Is that a mantra you still follow?

 

Scott Hackworth  03:31

Yes, I do. Like that quote. I guess I cite it often. And that was W. Edwards Deming, I think, who had said that? And you know, it is an important thing to live by and to follow for sure.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  03:43

Yeah. And do you find now two years later, does it connect with compensation about the same or differently? Like, do people have a different perspective on data and compensation today?

 

Scott Hackworth  03:53

Yes, in terms of the need for data, you know, it's never been greater, it's never been more valuable because we've never been able to do so much with it and learn so much from it. Right now, you know, the big thing in the Fed and all of that with interest rates, and, you know, what are they going to do? And can they pull off this soft landing? The reason that they're able to do that is because of data, right? They have data, and they have these sources and modeling and everything that's never been possible before. And so yes, I mean, in terms of the value of data, and the value that that makes for making good decisions, it's never been greater. And so yes, I would strongly encourage everybody to use data whenever possible.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  04:34

Yeah. And the most powerful data tools they can get their hands on, right? They those are changing, the numbers don't change a lot, but the the way we can manipulate them certainly has. 

 

Scott Hackworth  04:44

Exactly. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  04:45

So before we jump into the data on the CUES surveys this year, let's talk a little bit about the overall marketplace for talent and what general compensation trends look like right now. 

 

Scott Hackworth  04:56

Sure. In general, and so our company, our firm, we study close to 100 industries in terms of the compensation levels and you know, their operating performance and such. And right now, the top concern on everybody's mind still is finding, retaining talent. And so getting the best talent, and once you have them, keeping them, and so certainly, it's still a very hot job market. Now, some things are softening, and we're seeing some good indicators there. And especially more recently, where maybe, you know, there's a little bit of softening in that. But still, you know, there's one and a half jobs available for every one person who's looking. And so that still creates a very, very tough job market, in terms of as an employer looking to hire, that creates a lot of opportunities for the employees, and so just creates a lot of pressure, still.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  05:53

Another good reason to do a good job with the numbers and to look at compensation numbers and to think them through, right?

 

Scott Hackworth  05:59

For sure. And the numbers are important on both sides, you know, for the employees to know their numbers, so that way, they're getting fairly compensated. And you know, that they can evaluate, okay, is this situation I love the work-life balance? I love the culture. Is my pay, maybe it's slightly below average, but I'm willing to forgo that, you know, I can do that. And as an employer, you want to make sure that you're hitting the market, and that you're, you know, putting together a competitive package that works. And so yes, we're both sides, using the data and using that to make sure that you're in the right spot, is very valuable.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  06:36

That's really a great point that it goes both ways. It's useful to the job seeker as well as to the employer. 

 

Scott Hackworth  06:42

Absolutely. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  06:43

So what are you seeing in the CUES compensation data for credit union leaders and for staff people this year? What stands out to you?

 

06:51

Definitely, the year-over-year comparisons are still very high. There were significant, still in the high, it's high single digits, whereas in '21, it had been the low double digits, but we're still in that 7, 8, 9% year over year change. And that's on a same-sample basis. So looking at the same groupings of companies, same employees, largely, we are seeing 7, 8, 9% pay increases, which that's significant. And that puts a lot of pressure on the operating performance of the credit unions. So they're definitely paying a lot in order to make sure that they keep stability, especially among the top ranks. Now, we are seeing that on down with a lot of the general salaried positions, we're also seeing that, but especially up in the executive ranks, we're seeing that they are having a lot of incentive pay there to make sure that they are pushing for performance, but then also retaining that top talent.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  07:54

Right, right, interesting. So within that top grouping of people that you're seeing with the biggest of the salary increases, are there some specific positions that popped this year as getting special attention?

 

Scott Hackworth  08:07

While the one that made the biggest stride this year, and I don't have any data to explain why, but according to our data, chief member solutions officer, they had actually a 22% climb versus 21. So looking at that year- over-year comparison, they had a 21% climb for the typical employee in that position. So the typical executive, so they had a significant jump. And then a lot of the top-level positions also had significant jumps. For instance, CEO was up eight and a half percent, which at that high of a level, you know, an eight and a half percent jump is significant, versus the four or five percents that we had seen historically.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  08:55

So the CEO is always an awesome position to look at. Everyone's interested in the CEO. But how interesting that it's the chief member solutions executive that's seeing the very largest increases here. Can you tell me a little bit more about what was included in the definition of that position as you did the survey?

 

09:12

Sure. And in terms of the chief member solutions officer, we have according to our definition, that they are responsible for growing the credit union membership, and that they are really responsible for providing that effective member solution service. So I know I'm using a lot of the words there, but they develop, implement and assess the member services strategy, making sure that that user experience, the membership experience. And so obviously, that's really valuable, because we know that the asset size of the credit union is very important, overall, to the credit unions themselves. And so having those members involved feeling part of that community is a key strategy.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  09:53

Yeah, indeed, we hear a lot about the member experience, how is it from beginning to end. So it does fit with that line of thought, hinking that this particular position would be seeing an increase. So 

 

Scott Hackworth  10:05

And there's also a lot of data, a lot of data analytics and pieces getting more and more involved in those positions as well.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  10:11

Indeed, and I imagine that, you know, just kind of like it, we've talked about it other years, right? It's a specialized skill to be able to manage it. It's a specialized skill to be able to run the numbers and put them into context in an appropriate way. 

 

Scott Hackworth  10:26

For sure

 

Lisa Hochgraf  10:26

Might have to pay for that, right?

 

10:28

And that's true, and also just going on how specialized in what position, and it takes a lot of qualitative skills and your quantitative skills, as well. And that's a tough combination to find.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  10:37

There you go. So a little bit more nitty-gritty question now. If one of our listeners were to get either the CUES Executive Compensation Survey or the CUES Employee Salary Survey, or both, what suggestions would you have for them in terms of using the data in each of them effectively?

 

10:55

So the two are somewhat different in terms of if you acquired the executive compensation report, what I would encourage is that you look at the standalone data by position and that you look at that for evaluating. Okay, what compensation level should I be at? What is the average, you know, what is the median? What is that standard, but when you're looking at the year-over-year raises, you know, what kind of a trend line are you on versus the industry, we have this really neat cut-out where we're looking specifically at the same sample, as I mentioned previously, where really we our team does a really great job of narrowing in and identifying that, okay, this is the same employee as last year, what is their compensation this year versus last year? And so that way, we can establish more of a year-over-year true trend comparison. And so looking at that to see, are you on that same trend? When the industry is getting an 8%, did you get a 10? Did you get a 4? How do you compare? So that way, it gives you a more robust experience with the data.

 

Scott Hackworth  12:02

For those who are on maybe looking at the salary piece that is all online for you and allows you to filter the data. And so you can filter the data, customize the aggregates, so that it's exactly representative of your circumstance, whether the size of credit union that you're with, or maybe it's the community type. And so you can really zero in, make it as representative of your your own circumstances as possible, and then see those results. So that way, it gives you this report that's basically a very, very close representation to your circumstance to evaluate. 

 

Scott Hackworth  12:42

I do also want to mention that this year, for the executive compensation piece, there is a compensation calculator that is available. And that is pretty interesting. Our team builds this where essentially, you can put in your attributes, and so your years of experience, your education level, the size of credit union that you're with, what your title is, and it will render out the expected compensation range for yourself. And so that way, it's all regression-based but it comes out and just gives you this nice, very detailed, very specific range for yourself based on those features. Also, you can come in, you can change the years of experience and say, Hey, I only have three, what would it be if I had 10, and it will render out that so there's some learning that can take place as well.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  13:33

And vision-setting that could be done with that kind of a tool. That's very cool. I'm glad you brought that out. 

 

Scott Hackworth  13:38

Sure.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  13:39

So it kind of sounds to me like the data is in place and the tools to that both credit unions and individuals, so on both sides again of the compensation discussion, could get a lot of benefit out of it.

 

13:51

Absolutely, absolutely. CUES has put together really a nice suite of services. And in terms of the data for its members. And so on both sides, there's a lot of usefulness there, whether you're, you know, in HR at one of the credit unions, or you're one of the executives or one of the staff people yourself, just being able to generate those data. Yes, there's really nice tools available inside the portal for you.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  14:16

And I'm sure as our partner in this, Scott, that you and Industry Insights have had a lot of input and done a lot of leading on the way to having that nice suite of available tools. So thank you for that.

 

Scott Hackworth  14:27

We appreciate that. And yes, it's been a very good partnership for sure.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  14:31

Yeah. So I want to be respectful of your time. I always love having you on the show. I feel like we could talk all afternoon. But before we do close up, I would like to offer you the opportunity to answer a question that I didn't ask but that you would like to talk about with our listeners.

 

14:48

Well, I guess some other nuances within the data that maybe we could talk about: one is the age of some of the executives. We can tell from the data that the average age is moving younger. And so we're seeing that as many of the boomers, you know, have started to exit, and so there is some turnover, there's some shift, as we would expect. And so we can watch that. That has been pretty neat to watch, just to see the data play out in the sample. So for many of the positions, we can see that, in particular CEO, that was evident in this year's data. Also, we are seeing at the executive level, and in particular, in the CEOs, more women. So a little higher prevalence, not you know, it's not getting anywhere toward 50/50 yet, but it is ticking up. So we're seeing positive trend in that direction. And also, to a lesser extent, we're also seeing a little more diversity amongst the top ranks as well. So all of that, at least is positive for the industry and is definitely moving forward.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  15:52

That's all really interesting. Let me ask you a little bit more about the age shift. Can you give us a feel like maybe five years ago or so? And I know you'd like to be precise, but I'm okay with a more general answer, what the average age might have been of, say, the CEO slot? And now today, what did you see? Like how big of a shift are we talking? And how young are the people getting?

 

16:13

Overall on the average age might not feel like much, but we're probably getting about five years younger than we were five years ago. So it is significant. But to get to those top ranks, you have to have a lot of experience. So you're kind of dealing with a, you know, a relatively short span to begin with. So yeah, getting three to five years younger is quite a significant shift. And yeah, yeah, so it's definitely, in my opinion, it's gonna bring some fresher perspectives. And any time there's turns and change provides opportunities.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  16:48

Indeed, indeed. And the other thing I was thinking about is maybe I shouldn't have talked about averages. Because an average it'll squish a number in a different way than talking about a median were you talking about median age more than average age.

 

17:00

Honestly, to me, I was using the central tendency pretty universally, I guess. I was just kind of shifting the line a little bit because what we're looking at is frequency of age bands. And so I'm kind of processing that moving it forward. We are definitely seeing more shift toward younger, less experienced, you know, coming up because they just don't have that yet. And we're seeing a little fall off on the far tail of the most experienced in terms of the proportion, so.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  17:31

Fair enough. And there that answer is proof positive that you are the numbers guy, the guy who knows the data. So I appreciate you bringing that expertise today. Thanks so much for being on the show.

 

Scott Hackworth  17:42

It's always a pleasure to be with you. Thank you very much.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  17:45

I would like to thank you, our listeners for taking time out of your busy schedules to listen to today's episode of the CUES Podcast. And many thanks to Scott for sharing his deep knowledge of compensation and how to best use data. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  17:59

Learn more about the CUES Executive Compensation Survey, and the CUES Employee Salary Survey at cues.org/product-service. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  18:09

Find a transcript of this episode at CUmanagement.com/podcast 151. You can also find more great credit union-specific content at CUmanagement.com. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  18:21

Thanks again for listening today. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  18:23

CUES is an international credit union association that champions and delivers effective talent development solutions, or executive staff and boards to drive organizational success.

 

150 Jack Henry Peter Glyman Fintech Integration

By Peter Glyman

Lisa Hochgraf  00:03

You're listening to the CUES Podcast, episode 150. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:08

Welcome to the CUES Podcast, where leaders and experts discuss the top topics in credit unions today. I'm Lisa Hochgraf, senior editor at CUES. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:17

Today's guest, Peter Glyman, talks about fintech integration. Peter is managing director of corporate strategy at Jack Henry, the CUES supplier member sponsoring the show. You may remember him as a co-founder of Geezio, the personal financial management fintech that was acquired by Jack Henry in 2019. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  00:37

In this episode of the CUES Podcast, Peter talks about the challenges of integration faced by credit unions and fintechs. He remembers exciting days leading Geezio when he and his team were rewriting code during production, and how he and his business partner pivoted the company to focus more on the credit union market. He also describes how he now applies his knowledge of the inner workings of a fintech startup to helping Jack Henry select fintechs to integrate into its products. He says it's fun to be able to say yes to a fintech integration. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:10

Peter has a wonderful conversational style. And I know you'll gain valuable insights from listening to this show. So let's get started. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:21

Welcome to the show, Peter. 

 

Peter Glyman  01:23

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  01:25

So before we jump into talking about fintech, I'd like to help our listeners get to know you a little bit. Would you have a professional mantra or a quote that you live by that you could share?

 

Peter Glyman  01:37

I think the first thing that comes to mind is to be nice and be kind to people that you work with and do your best to work with others. Yeah, I think that's that's kind of first and foremost. It's a tough industry that we're in sometimes, and you know, sometimes a smiling face and a helping hand goes a long way for people that are trying to do well in this space and whatever capacity so

 

Lisa Hochgraf  02:00

A little kindness can go a long way I agree completely. In the 20 or so plus years, I've been in the credit union space, I've heard a lot about the time and resources it takes to take one bit of technology and integrate it to actually work with another one. So like, connecting the loan origination system with a core system. So in the age of fintech, when a lot of leading fintechs startups are outside of the credit union space, how would you say integration is the same? And also, how would you say it's different?

 

Peter Glyman  02:34

I think the challenges are different, you know, for a company that's established, certainly, you know, connecting the dots doing integrations, I think there's a bit more time and attention that needs to be spent on certain efforts because the repercussions of doing things poorly could be greater. So in some cases, larger companies have different risks, which, sometimes it's not always the technical challenge, but the logistics and operational challenges that go along with it, and ensuring high-quality product is getting out there, whereas a fintech might have a bit more leeway in pushing limits and testing things. 

 

Peter Glyman  03:14

You know, I remember, when we started our company back in 2006, we would update code in real time in production, you know, based on customer feedback. I mean, wild stuff like that. So we thought that was fun. I mean, those are really exciting times. But I think that's certainly a little bit different. I think, the fintechs, they still have their challenges too, whether it's a lack of knowledge of the space, lack of the complexities of the integrations that they may be looking to work with, you know, their own tech may be really innovative and challenging in its own right, and then finding how to then deploy that into other traditional financial stacks, oftentimes is more challenging.

 

Peter Glyman  03:54

I think some people expect, there's similarities and differences. They each have their pros and cons, I would say that the fintechs probably have a longer runway when it comes to pushing limits and innovating, building fast and getting it out the door, which is often why you see the larger fintechs integrating with and partnering or supporting, you know, these fintechs that are coming out and delivering innovative products, because it's, it allows folks like us like Jack Henry to get the solutions in the hands of our credit unions a lot quicker where otherwise, you know, we might not have the breadth to get all these things out the door.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  04:32

Yeah, there's so much in your answer there. I'm kind of hearing that an organization like an established credit union has its own set of integration challenges and technology challenges and a fintech has maybe a separate set. And then you might even think of a third set of challenges when you bring the two together. 

 

Peter Glyman  04:50

Sure. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  04:50

Yeah.

 

Peter Glyman  04:51

And the credit union, right, there are challenges. So you have three different groups there that all need to work harmoniously.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  04:57

Yes, exactly. So if you would And tell us a little bit about the company you referenced that was a startup that was kind of like, maybe it is a fintech. But it was a startup and you were doing things fast and iterating quickly and failing forward, all those things probably. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

 

Peter Glyman  05:14

Yeah, happy to. So co-founded Geezeo, g-e-e-z-e-o. And we started that company back in 2006. Shawn Ward and myself were the founders. And we set out with an idea of building kind of a next-generation Quicken you know, web 2.0 Quicken an alternative web-based. And we started off with aggregation and mobile. I think our first recognition we got was a Wall Street Journal article, and it was like, Chase B of A, Geezep, the future of mobile banking. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  05:48

Wow. 

 

Peter Glyman  05:49

Yeah, so that was a biggie. So that got us on the map. And originally, we were direct to consumer. There were a few other players in the space, companies like Mint, Wasabi, bucks for Rutter, there are a whole handful of others. Some really neat companies, innovative companies, all trying and do things slightly different. Everybody had a goal of making it easier to track and manage your finances and leverage new innovative tech to do that without installing software and starting and stopping. 

 

Peter Glyman  06:20

So we did very well there. We started off direct consumer. About three years after we launched, we actually pivoted the business, we got a lot of interest, actually from credit unions. Some of our early clients were folks like Alliant Credit Union, Stanford, some of the larger ones early on that really helped get us the credibility we needed in the space. And then we rebuilt the product. So it was a SaaS-based platform for credit unions, started integrating into digital banking, mobile banking, started establishing partnerships with a lot of the players in the space that already had some of those clients in place. And then,

 

Lisa Hochgraf  06:57

Talk about integration with fintech. You've been on. 

 

Peter Glyman  07:02

Yeah, we were, we were there.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  07:04

So, how many years were you part of Geezeo?

 

Peter Glyman  07:08

We started in 2006. It was when we founded it. And then Jack Henry acquired our company in 2019. So I've been with Jack Henry since then, that's how that's how I'm here. And Jack Henry was a partner of ours. And we were integrating into Banno, the digital banking product to Jack Henry and NetTeller. 

 

Peter Glyman  07:25

So you know, after the acquisition, I worked with the digital team a bit and then spent a fair amount of time working with our developer relations group on our dev portal, which makes it easier for fintechs to integrate into Jack Henry. 

 

Peter Glyman  07:39

So it's fun to be on this side of it because I absolutely understand the pain of trying to integrate with cores and digital banking and mobile banking and the decisions you need to make about how many can we integrate with? You know, where are we going to start? Historically, it was always very, very much a challenge. existing players in the space were often hesitant to make it easy for you to integrate because it was just, that's not that what they want to be doing. But I think that sentiment has changed a lot. I think if you look at like what we're doing, and others, I think everybody's recognizing that we need to open up our stack for these fintechs. Otherwise, our clients or credit unions are going to have a harder time to succeed against, you know, the consumer-based products that are out there. So that's an area that we've spent a lot on at Jack Henry.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  08:24

So tell me a little bit more about the transition from Geezeo into being part of Jack Henry. I imagine at first your work was a lot of Geezeo.. But then now are you integrating a variety of things with the Jack Henry products? Or what is your role now at Jack Henry? What are you doing? 

 

Peter Glyman  08:39

So first of all it's Geezeo.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  08:41

Geezeo, thank you.

 

Peter Glyman  08:42

Yeah, keep thinking that keep the G's in your pocket. I know that was rough but it caught on. Yeah, the Geezeo one, that's for the older demographic.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  08:58

Which is where I fit these days, unfortunately.

 

Peter Glyman  09:02

Not at all. So after that, I worked with the digital team. And now I'm on the corporate strategy team. I look at a variety of different areas where fintechs could be instrumental in Jack Henry's long-term growth, product gaps, advancement, complementary markets, spending a fair amount of time working with the fintechs that we see out there that are interesting to us that might be future Geezeos, or Bannos. It's very enjoyable. I really neat to be on this side of things. And when I talk about being kind and friendly, it's a fun part of the role when you're talking to a fintech who's looking to integrate, and you can say yes, and let me show you a path to how to do that. And how can we help. So there's a number of other people on the team that share that sentiment, are part of that process, which is just really enjoyable.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  09:46

I love how you tied in your mantra with the conversations that you're having across the table. This is really great. So in your work with these integrations with fintech, what are some best practices you've seen credit unions use?

 

Peter Glyman  09:58

You know, we see a variety of approaches. I don't know that they're all best practices as much as they are just practices. And I think people still trying to figure out the best way. And in some ways, things haven't changed where credit union connects with the fintech, they like the fintech, and then it's like, Okay, now we need to figure out how to get you to work in our environment. So I don't think that has changed too much. We're working towards improving that by having, you know, more fintechs in our ecosystem. So hopefully, you're not discovering the fintech, we've already discovered it, and they're already part of our ecosystem. And you're instead going, Hey, we have a challenge or a solution we're looking for, how can Jack Henry help us fast track that with, you know, a fintech that's innovative in the space. 

 

Peter Glyman  10:44

I would say, has to pick one area that I see that seems to be successful is those credit unions that tend to lean in a little bit more into the smaller fintechs. They're getting involved in incubation, they're getting involved in CUSOs, they're supporting and helping cultivate and nurture those businesses to success. You know, one thing about credit unions is they're great at telling other credit unions when you know, they find a product or service that they're happy with. Same with those that they're not. So it's great when you see a credit union that's supporting a startup founder team, and helping them because then you're going to have firsthand exposure to that innovation as it's being built. 

 

Peter Glyman  11:26

So, yeah, I'd say some of the more innovative credit unions, if we want to call it a best practice, they're getting involved. They have people on their team that are out, actively looking at fintechs, participating and supporting innovation in the space. øperationally past that, you know, probably not too hands-on to where I would know like what the kind of the day-to-day looks like in terms of working with fintech.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  11:50

That's all right. I already feel like you've identified best practice in a way. Well, I mean, one is to have the conversation directly with the fintech and another is to work with another partner that you already have that's working with the fintech and maybe knowing that there's someone like Peter Glyman on the team that knows fintech so well and knows how to evaluate them. Maybe that's something to think about as credit unions make a decision about how to move forward with choosing fintechs to work with, and then ultimately, whether they're going to integrate on their own, or whether they're gonna say, Oh, well, Jack Henry decided to integrate this one already. So I can add it if I want to.

 

Peter Glyman  12:25

Yeah, or hey, yeah. And we found this one and Jack Henry would highly recommend it. You know, APAP love for you to take a look at this, this company's product and team and you know, we're considering it, maybe we could get it, you know, at the next advisory board meeting, have them present or having to do a demo to a larger audience. And Charlie and Jack Henry, the line of business that covers that particular vertical, having that dialogue is really, really important.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  12:48

Yeah. So I'm a wordsmith, who happens to live with an engineer and a computer science student. That's my husband and my son. And I hear this, I hear this talk about these APIs. And I read about them all the time too because I read a lot. So I know that this acronym stands for Application Programming Interface and that somehow, these APIs help pieces of technology talk to each other and work with one another. So for those of us that are not like, full technologists, what does API mean for credit union tech integrations? And how can credit unions best leverage APIs for success?

 

13:23

You know, if you're looking at a fintech to work with, really important to know, if they have APIs available for their product. You don't need it in all cases, if it's a very turnkey solution that already has an interface and complete user experience. But at some point, you're going to want to access data, or it needs to be extensible to some other product or service. And APIs are going to make that significantly easier. 

 

Peter Glyman  13:51

Most modern fintech companies are publishing APIs to their platform. And it's also going to make it easier for them to integrate in both directions with other technology providers, whether it be a Jack Henry or card solution or even data analytics that you're trying to pull information out of a particular system. So APIs typically means that it's going to be easier and more flexible in the future for you to work with that particular organization. 

 

14:21

And it's it didn't always used to be the case. I remember, you know, with Geezeo. We published all the APIs to our platform. We were probably one of the first PFM fintechs out there to publish our API library, and you could build your own front end, you could roll your own PFM using our APIs. I remember someone that I respect a lot in this space she told me she goes, "Pete don't bother with the APIs right now. Just build the widgets, build the cards that go right in because everybody's gonna say they want them but they're never going to work with them. They're never going to build their own custom anything." And you know what, she was right. I think for a long time. We were a little bit ahead of our time. And a credit union or fintech needs to have the development resources to create using the APIs because it's more of like building blocks. It's all the lumber of the house, so you can build your own house. But at the time, a lot of people just wanted the house. And a lot of that has to do with how credit unions are allocating their own internal teams and resources to projects that require technical resources. 

 

Peter Glyman  15:22

So I think today, what we're seeing is more and more of both, you  know, and the two are coming together, where you're seeing optionality, you know, between fully delivered solution APIs. I would be concerned, I think, if I was looking at any fintech today that didn't publish all their APIs. It's also a really great visibility into their product. You know, how fully baked is it? Because once you start publishing access to your system, it means that all those services are really there. Right? So it can't be like smoke and mirrors, you know, here's what we're doing, you know, or we're gonna be doing it someday. If they show you their API documents, or they're published on their website, that's very validating, I think in terms of the product at hand, I think at the moment, so hopefully, that helps.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  16:10

It sounds very credit union-like too. I love that you were you and the folks that Geezeo, I got that right, right. Geez in your pocket. Published early, like you were leaders in that, but it's very credit union-like to say, Hey, I tried this and look how it worked and talk about it in the industry. 

 

Peter Glyman  16:26

Absolutely.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  16:26

So I love leaders in that. That's really cool. So I'm kind of curious if as a as someone who's been in the fintech space for a long time, and now you were working in a large organization, still talking about what's good about fintech and how to make it work for credit unions. Of the fintechs that you've integrated into Jack Henry, are there a couple that you're particularly excited about or, you know, want to highlight because of how cool they are as a technology person?

 

Peter Glyman  16:53

Yeah, I think two that we've seen a lot of success with. One is Autobooks, which is a small business and accounting platform. They do a really nice job providing services to the credit unions' small businesses, everything from general accounting to payments, receiving invoices and payments. We're starting to see more and more interest in the small business side of things. And connecting to our APIs, connecting to our existing digital banking is a great way for that type of product to be delivered to a credit union. Because it's all the same data, right? It's the core data, it's the payment data, it's transaction data, it's the authentication of the users. We haven't built a you know, we have Banno Business, our digital banking product, which is more focused towards business customers, but Autobooks takes it to the next step. They've done a really nice integration, very elegant, and it's, I think, a, an excellent example of an extension of something that we don't have, but our credit unions can benefit from. 

 

Peter Glyman  17:54

Another one I really like is Array. They're a credit score, credit monitoring platform, perfect example of a plugin into digital banking that that just makes sense. You know, especially if you look at competitive, large FI products out there, they've got credit score, credit monitoring, just table stakes, as part of their mobile banking offerings, typically. Array solves that. Similarly, they've done a really nice integration into Banno using our plugin framework, and it just looks like it's part of the mobile experience. And that that's the goal, right? If we can create a framework that is clear enough and documented well enough, a fintech can just go in and they're engineers can spend, you know, week, eight weeks building, without us even really getting involved. And an Array has done an excellent job at that. 

 

Peter Glyman  18:47

There's many others, as well. There's there's over a few 100 fintechs that have been integrated into the Jack Henry toolkit. And we have not only on the digital side, but we also have our cores, like for Episys, we have SymXchange, which is all accessible through APIs. And that continues to get modernized as well. Our dev rel and engineering teams that focus on working with developers are spending a good amount of time on kind of standardizing things and making it more and more accessible.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  19:16

That's really cool. Thank you for those insights into sort of the inside look at what's available and 

 

Peter Glyman  19:22

yeah

 

Lisa Hochgraf  19:22

particularly sleek and well put together. I really appreciate your time today, Peter. But before we close up the show, I want to ask you, What question didn't I ask that you would like to answer for our listeners?

 

Peter Glyman  19:34

I would share that like areas that we're interested in so if credit unions that are listening to the show are interested that happened to be Jack Henry clients, what areas are you interested in? What new technologies interest you? I'd love to hear that. I'd love to hear what you're thinking and what you're working on. I spent a fair amount of time the last couple of years looking at blockchain and crypto for Jack Henry and how that is relevant for our credit union clients. There's some areas that are have lost some steam, but there's still areas like payments, which I see there's still a fair amount of application. We're looking at wealth tech as an area of interest, allowing credit union members to be able to buy fractional shares of stocks or create portfolios. I think that's a missing piece in the member experience with their credit unions and it's things still seem to be a little disjointed there between investment advice and investing and in traditional deposit, longtime banking. I just put it back at the the listeners and, you know, and even if you're not a Jack Henry customer, you just want to talk fintech. I always enjoy it. So, you know, hit me up on LinkedIn or whatever. I would love to chat.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  20:47

Very good, Peter. That's a really nice offer. Thanks so much for being on the show today.

 

20:51

My pleasure, Lisa, appreciate it. This was a lot of fun.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  20:56

I would like to thank you, our listeners for taking time out of your busy schedules to listen to today's episode of the CUES Podcast. And many thanks to Peter for sharing his deep knowledge of fintech and integrations. Learn more about Jack Henry at Jackhenry.com. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  21:12

If you liked the show, you might want to learn more about CEO Institute: FinTech in 2024. Visit cues.org/fintech.

 

Lisa Hochgraf  21:23

 Find a transcript of this episode at CUmanagement.com/podcast 150. You can also find more great credit union-specific content at CUmanagement.com. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  21:35

Thanks again for listening today. 

 

Lisa Hochgraf  21:37

CUES is an international credit union association that champions and delivers effective talent development solutions for executives, staff and boards to drive organizational success.